Dear Brigette,

Rabble's Comments are In Italics

To be honest, when people posting anonymously accusing others posting anonymously, the conversation has a way of descending that irks me a lot.

Especially, when this turns into "YOU PEOPLE" and then a bunch of atrocities follow that the other "you people" supposedly committed.

The fire-bombings? Those aren’t ‘supposedly’. Those are facts, just like the 20 attempted murders. Those actually happened.
And when I say ‘you people’ I’m using it as a replacement for ‘Members of the movement to which you are aligning yourself’. It’s a bit of a mouthful and I didn’t think anyone would think I was personally accusing anyone.

I don't know anyone who firebombs or murders people or punishes people for having sex.

Is this a conversation you frequently have with people? I don’t know any people like that either.
However it is a fact that Members of the movement to which you are aligning yourself have firebombed, vandalized and bombed clinics 2400 times since abortion was made legal. It is also a fact that Members of the movement to which you are aligning yourself have killed 9 doctors. It is also a fact that the legislation that Members of the movement to which you are aligning yourself try to get passed would force women into maternity for having sex (sometimes even nonconsensual sex) regardless of whether they want the child. This is, effectively, punishing women for having sex.
Note that I’m not claiming all children are unwanted. For the women who want them, children are wonderful. For the women who don’t though, it would be horrific to force them to go through a pregnancy which could severely harm them, mentally and physically.

I do know people who have had abortions and feel that they have murdered people.

Good for you? I know people who have had abortions and don’t feel that. Heck, 1 in 4 women will have an abortion by age 30, I’ll bet even you know a few women who have had abortions and don’t feel like they killed someone.

They have been punishing themselves, not been punished by someone. It is some of those individuals who now feel compelled to afford other women who are rushing into an abortion a time to reconsider.

That last sentence could use a few commas, but I think I understand you.
You are making a strange assumption, no woman is even able to go to an abortion clinic right after she gets a positive pregnancy test. There’s a process the woman must go through. This usually means she has to make an appointment and then wait for that appointment. I highly doubt that women are spending that time between a positive test and the appointment completely ignoring the fact that they’re pregnant and not giving it another thought. That’s completely unreasonable. Who are Members of the movement to which you are aligning yourself to demand that a woman take more time? Do you not trust her to make her own decisions? I do.

When a young woman has sex and is not ready for the responsibility, and this is usually because her boyfriend/husband or parents don't support her other than driving her to the abortion clinic, or she wants no one to know, that she is in a position where there are NO MORE EASY CHOICES. All of it can feel like "punishment" and maybe it is. (See Genesis).

…did you just bring the Bible into this? Please, never do that again. Your faith is not mine and it is not the faith of everyone. I am not saying you can’t have your faith, go ahead. But you may not attempt to have your faith legislated.
That aside, you cannot know the situation of every woman. You can’t make broad generalizations about women and their relationships. So stop trying.

The pregnancy is hard, the birth is hard, the abortion is hard, placing for adoption is hard, the single parenting is hard, heck, all of parenting even under the best circumstances is hard. All of it is hard and none of it is the fault of any pro-lifers. It is the nature of the situation. That is just HOW it is. Nobody to blame.

I never said either option was easy.
But of the options you listed abortion is the least likely to kill women.

If a man becomes violent in any way, it is a terrible thing and he should be punished appropriately by the authorities. Nobody condones it. You might realize, however, that some of them feel that their own child/children have been "murdered" without their consent. Which is no excuse. If they are Christians they will remember the Lord's command not to take revenge.

Why don’t you take that up with them? It has nothing to do with me.

Nobody here has claimed to be more "compassionate" than anyone else. Pro-choicers and pro-lifers are "sinners" all alike. The complaint we are making here is that many women rush into abortion without proper time to think or counsel about it or find better support. The internet we are told furthers this problem by the ease in which appointments can be made.

I have told you before that abortions are not really drop-in procedures. I have also told you that you aren’t psychic. You do not know the situation of every woman walking into that clinic now stop acting like you do.

And, of course, we do believe that abortion is the worst of the choices because it is irreversible, final, and yes against God' ideas and most people's conscience in the long run.

Again, stop bringing your morality into this. Your personal faith is irrelevant to this argument.
And yet again, stop claiming you know how every woman feels after her abortion.

But we cannot force anyone not to do it. There will always be a way. Even the ancient Greeks had abortions. That is why the Hippocratic oath forbids it. We can only hope that people think about it more and that any measure that will help a women think and cope that can be put into place be put into place.

Every society ever has had abortions. It is only now, in the days of modern medicine, that abortions do not result in death. Except in countries where abortion is still illegal. In those countries women still suffer and die, leaving 42,000 children motherless every year.
Also, the Hippocratic oath says a lot of things, among them “if [my teacher] is in need of money to give him a share of mine” and “Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice…in particular of sexual relations”.
Doctors these days hardly even know the people who taught them and certainly aren’t giving away their money to them. They are also certainly visiting houses for reasons other than to heal the sick, like dinner parties. The oath is also to “all the gods, and goddesses” implying a pantheon that your monotheistic religion does not support.

Most of all, we need men and women to believe in committed relationships.

Excuse me? Why are you brining up relationships? That is completely irrelevant.

The other issue is that many, many times the boyfriends are the ones, who want this problem solved as soon as possible and are very "sweet" about helping the mother of their child to get to the abortion clinic as soon as possible. They will be very "supportive" for that one day and then the relationship usually comes to a natural conclusion.

That’s it. I’m sick of this. You need to get off your high horse and realize that you don’t know everything. You need to understand that you cannot know the mind, relationship status, future and/or situation of all women in the world.

Don't tell me that this is not a problem.

The problem I see here is you seeming to think you’re a psychic.

Bridgette's Second Comment:

Rabble, what is supposed to be a PAS advocate?

Terribly sorry, allow me to explain:
A PAS Advocate is anyone who argues (Advocates) for, spreads the myth of, or generally supports the existence of the false condition referred to as Post-Abortion Syndrome.

We are talking here about people who speak and cry with people who are suffering after their abortions. That does not make them advocates of anything. It makes them human beings with real human experiences.

I never said that being an advocate does not make someone human. That’s ridiculous.

Both Amanda and Pastor Erickson are young and I bet they have not seen anything, yet, that there will be much more from where their experiences have come from so far.

So?

Somehow "firebombers" are not a random sample, everyone who does not agree with you is accused of atrocity.

I never accused any one of that. Don’t put words in my mouth.

But when people talk about talking with aborted women you can just write that off as a skewered sample? Sorry, Rabble, they have not conducted a scientific study, they only have talked with people who have sought them out. That does not make it any less real. You can't just dismiss that because you don't like it.

Again, I never have and never will state that no women feel grief after abortions. Find me a moment where I said that. But it is not a psychological condition. The women who you hear about are not the women who feel relief after the abortion. Those women are much more common than those who feel grief. You can’t dismiss the majority just because you don’t like it.

Yes, I agree, studies form 30 years ago, are ridiculous to cite.

Where are you getting 30 from? I said 21. 21 is closer to 13 than it is to 30. And the APA didn’t magically disappear after that study. They’re still around and they review studies all the time. There has been no change in their stance. The reason I’m citing the APA is because they are the authority on psychology and psychiatry. I trust their stance far beyond any individual study.

If it is left out of manuals now, there could be a number of reasons for that. It might include people like yourself standing up accusing them of all kinds of things including: "firebombing", "murdering", "feeding cookies to unwitting victims", "punishing people for having sex", being "stupid", having a "fucking God", faking "compassion", "depriving women of necessary surgeries", and what else.

Just so you’re aware, the DSM doesn’t bend easily to public will. It took years to have homosexuality removed. Removing something from the DSM is very difficult, however they have a penchant for adding new conditions, phobias and increasing they symptoms of diseases. Also, if you’re going to quote me like that, make sure you’re using terms I actually used.

Just a half a minutes worth of googleing produces links such as this one:

http://www.abortionclinics.ca/recent-research.pdf

And less than half a minute of looking at that pdf reveals the REAL source: http://www.theunchoice.com/
Propaganda is not a proper source.

It does make one wonder whose research is more up-to-date and more correct. And it does make one wonder why you ignore it.

I ignore it because it is taken out of context and misquoted.
Allow me to present you with a link to an article about Abortion and Mental Health. This is from the Guttemacher Institute, a reproductive-health think tank that collect good studies about these issues:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/09/3/gpr090308.html
Here too, is an article they mention, done in 2006: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/summaries/2006/05/04/AiWL_exec_summ.pdf
I hope you’ll find this research up-to-date.
Love,
Rabble

Via: 1, 2